Morgush
A Talking Moo
Former Chieftain
Posts: 307
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Post by Morgush on Jan 22, 2007 8:21:10 GMT 1
Let me start out by saying I do not like it one bit that there appears to be a need for a set of guidelines for behaviour on our channels. However, to clarify things, and prevent future incidents I will start with a suggestion, and some general remarks. Everyone is free to comment on these and hopefully we'll come to a general consensus.
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- Any remarks which are racist or are intended as such will not be tolerated.
- Any remarks which are sexists in nature or intended as such will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not exclusively about, homosexuality.
- Any remarks towards religious views that are offense in nature will not be tolerated.
- Swearing is frowned upon and is not encouraged.
- Our channels are not for OOC arguments. We have /whisper for that, or you can form a party to discus such things.
- Don't make things too personal or take things too personal. Have some common sense when saying and/or reading things.
- Everyone please try to be patient, as sometimes people get carried away and talk before they think, without realising how bad it can make someone else feel.
- That said, don't hesitate to speak up if you feel offended; point out your point of view politely to the offender and ask them to stop. Importantly, remember to make it clear what you say is not jest or sarcasm but an actual complaint; otherwise this can be hard to tell in a virtual conversation.
- If that doesn't work, ask an officer to settle the matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have guild officers. These are the Chieftain, the Elders and the Braves. At this time those persons would be Grail, Kugar, Aroh and Bonkhron.
These people are not officers for nothing. They are longstanding members of this guild, and have proven themselves to be mature players. As such, if they say something is so, you can assume whatever that officer says has been discussed on the officer channel, and is supported by the other officers.
If the above rules are not respected, we will issue a warning. If that warning is not headed we may decide to take other actions which may include banning from the channel in question or even guild kicks.
edit 1: added religion edit 2: added Lywon's input edit 3 (Grail): fixed old information
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Brandt
Tribesman
Treasure , Swag, Booty!
Posts: 400
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Post by Brandt on Jan 22, 2007 9:55:59 GMT 1
Add Religion too.
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Post by Kugar on Jan 22, 2007 10:24:36 GMT 1
Whoa, what did I miss? I never really thought we had problems with any of these things on our channel.
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Post by Aroh on Jan 22, 2007 10:57:51 GMT 1
To what Morgush said I would like to just add one general rule. I would like our chat to be such that noone wants to/feels the need to leave it because of its content. This in practise meaning for example offensive comments about homosexual and ethnic or religious groups or talking about rape as a normal practise of war(this actually has only happened in IC). You do not know who is behind the screens really and what they have been through. Also, might I remind you that we have 12 year olds in the guild, so keep your sexual experiences to yourself, please.
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Post by Huntress Skyfire on Jan 22, 2007 17:07:58 GMT 1
I have a very kinky sense of humor, I admit. Although I don't use it, until someone else starts, I must point out. Oh, and since the case is that we have 12 year olds in the guild, that should be pointed out really, since that would help keep the chat in... the level you want it to. Considering how our discussions has been held in the past, without any reactions like this (alcohol-discussions, slash-discussions etc...) I always thought that there only was adult or at least mature people in this guild. And question: Our OOC-channel is still for OOC-discuission, right? I mean... Point 5 in your list could be taken as we can't discuss OOC-thing in the OOC-channel... We still can, I hope... Just add that if you have arguments between two persons, that discussion should be held in private. And other thing. We do play on an RP-server. We play a game that revolves around a war. It can get nasty then IC. It is war, we are talking here, after all. Everything would be so much easier if I only knew who the true younglings are, so I can hold my tounge/fingers when I chatt to them!!!
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Morgush
A Talking Moo
Former Chieftain
Posts: 307
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Post by Morgush on Jan 23, 2007 8:53:40 GMT 1
And question: Our OOC-channel is still for OOC-discuission, right? I mean... Point 5 in your list could be taken as we can't discuss OOC-thing in the OOC-channel... We still can, I hope... Just add that if you have arguments between two persons, that discussion should be held in private. And other thing. We do play on an RP-server. We play a game that revolves around a war. It can get nasty then IC. It is war, we are talking here, after all. Point 5 is ment as the "common sense" addition. It should be possible to talk/joke/discuss about anything, including the things above. What I mean with that is that a joke about women/men/football/whatever should be possible, but use common sense to determine whether it's smart to say it or not.
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Post by Aroh on Jan 23, 2007 10:34:21 GMT 1
Sky said: And other thing. We do play on an RP-server. We play a game that revolves around a war. It can get nasty then IC. It is war, we are talking here, after all. And I say: I am very aware of the fact that this is a rp server. How ever, this game is fiction, and I see it sort of unneccesary to bring in all things men are idiotic enough to do IRL. The rape matter was widly discussed in the realm forums a while back and I see no need in starting a huge debate here. I just wish to point out, that things said IC can be just as offensive and common sense can be used also when making IC statements. Yes, things are said IC but it still makes me(behind the screen) feel sick every time. I have a close friend who was raped, so it is very hard not to relate this matter to real life. I hope I made my point clearer
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Post by Huntress Skyfire on Jan 23, 2007 17:38:55 GMT 1
You made your point very clear, don't worry Aroh. I just wondered, ya' know? Haven't heard me talking about rapes and other nasty stuff have you? Only evul dwarfs bonking me in the head taking my eye. Also nasty, but not the same level, is it? I always use common sense in chatt to, whatever channel I am in. Checking the level people talk before talking myself. Hence why I wanted to know, why now? Why not having these rules earlier if it has been a problem (has it? I didn't notice...). And also if we have had young people in the guild for a long time. That I wanna know most off all. (So, who is the young person? I honestly wanna know, so I won't be rude to said person.) Edit to add: Oups, sorry, Morg. Didn't see your answer, until after I posted this. And yes. Your right.
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Post by Lywon on Jan 23, 2007 20:07:34 GMT 1
Linked this info to Basic info for Mistrunners. And yes, a bit sad this matter did come up, although probably inevitable in a mixed, virtual community like this. I think it's important the matter is now a bit clearer so people will know better what is expected of them. Morgush's guidelines are good in my opinion too, with the following additions: - Everyone please try to be patient, as sometimes people get carried away and talk before they think, without realising how bad it can make someone else feel. - That said, don't hesitate to speak up if you feel offended; point out your point of view politely to the offender and ask them to stop. Importantly, remember to make it clear what you say is not jest or sarcasm but an actual complaint; otherwise this can be hard to tell in a virtual conversation. - If that doesn't work, ask an officer to settle the matter.
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Post by Huntress Skyfire on Jan 23, 2007 20:21:16 GMT 1
Second, Lywon. Well said.
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Post by Nightcalf on Jan 26, 2007 13:13:21 GMT 1
Like everyone else I find it sad, that it is necessary to make rules for our OOC-chat. As grown up people I expect us to behave as such, and that means treating each other with respect. But as Skyfire said, if we can't have diskussions here, then what is it for? To tell each other about our pets and jobs? I haven't been involved in the argument that led to this, so I may speak out of line, but I sure hope it is possible to joke about things as insensitive men, homosexuals, hysteric women and such. Of course we shouldn't offend anyone, but its fun to joke about stereotypes. It doesn't mean one is homofobic, or racist or hates muslims or anything like that. And I don't understand why someone is demoted, on a tribemeeting, not being present. No diskussion in the tribe first! This is NOT very IC. Make up an excuse, tell people about why this decision is made. And Morgush, don't cut off any diskussion about it on the chat. You are Nightcalfs chief and she will treat you with respect and loyalty, and do your bidding. But you are not my chief, and I don't like the idea that the officers decide what questions are allowed. I think you are doing a very good job as chieftain, but unless people get hurt, you don't rule the OOC-chat in my oppinon And last... who is this youngster we have to be so careful around?
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Morgush
A Talking Moo
Former Chieftain
Posts: 307
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Post by Morgush on Jan 26, 2007 14:42:44 GMT 1
Talking about thins on OOC is fine Nightcalf, but an argument, between a few people does not belong on a general chat and I will cut any discussion on a channel which is inappropriate for that channel off. Compare it to having an argument in a shopping mall. You just don't do that. You keep quiet, go home and have your argument there.
If something concerns the entire Tribe, I will let it go on, but I will not tolerate internal affairs to linger on channels where everyone can see them. Remember, it's not just Mistrunners there, there are also people from DBC, BD, Brewmasters of Kalimdor etc etc etc.
Secondly, OOC should no have any bearing on IC, I agree. However, we have no other possibility to show our displeasement other than guild ranks and guild kicks (besides warnings to the person him/herself which were given). This was the best alternative, and unless you or anyone else can come up with something, this measure stands.
In that, extreme, case I felt is was nessecary to cut into that argument. I do not rule (I firmly object to you using that word) the OOC, but the Elders and me moderate that channel as much as we lead the Tribe ingame. As I said, that was an extreme case and I stand with what I did there. I will NOT accept that sort of thing to go on on open channels. And yes Nightcalf, people were deeply offended by a few things said in this case.
Of course this is still possible. The channel is ment for OOC fun and banter. Nothing has changed from before, we've only wriiten down rules we should everyone knew already. Simple as that.
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Post by Aroh on Jan 26, 2007 15:44:43 GMT 1
Kepen at least said himself he is 12 years old, to clear that matter.
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Post by Nightcalf on Jan 28, 2007 18:38:01 GMT 1
Thank you Morgush. That's an acceptable explanation and a good answer. One small mistake I like to clear up: The argument I was talking about was me asking what was going on, and being told: "this discussion ends here." Didn't even get to the discussionpart . But I get the point. On the demoting-thing, I still think it could be handled differently in the future. Only there wont be episodes like this in the future, now we've had this discussion, but still... This has nothing to do with this case, but only me trying to figure out a RP way to deal with a OOC-problem I agree if someone is bothering someone else, and is not responding to a warning, he or she should get kicked out. My problem is, I doubt a demoting matters at all. Of course I can only speak for my self on this matter, but what difference does it make? You can participate in all tribeactivities as a youngling as well as a brave (as it should be), so no punishment there. It wont work as an example for others, since we are not told the reason for the demoting. Perhaps it should only be: warning, warning, kick-out. Or some kind of RP-excuse for the demoting. Hope this will only be speculations, and that we wont need any warnings at all
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Kyawa
Tribesman
Posts: 15
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Post by Kyawa on Feb 1, 2007 16:08:26 GMT 1
Just do not offend others - in any way. But I do not think we should not be allowed to have a discussion in the chat, as I consider everyone mature(yes) enough to keep it friendly.
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